@schmidt_fu Star Trek: a Western in space ships, a semi-utopian future in which conflict usually starts 'outside.' Engagement with emerging civilisations: forbidden until they achieve a level of development to join a United Federation of Planets.
@bazbt3 That was the ideal, now to the pragmatics: Star Trek made the future appear on the screen for the masses. With little budget at times and using cheap chliches and intellectual shortcuts - so to be understandable for everyone and fit into TV blocks.
@bazbt3 Star Trek is ultimately a utopian future, where there's no crime, no poverty, etc. For me, it's most interesting when they divert from that (like they do in DS9). @schmidt_fu
@schmidt_fu The main difference is Roddenberry's involvement. He was strongly involved with TOS and the TOS movies, and the early seasons of TNG (there are some really preachy scenes (Riker: "We don't enslave animals for food"). @bazbt3
@mlv That's interesting. I remember TOS for it's violence: the captain himself would beam down and settle a dispute with his bare fists. TNG (to me) was much cleaner on the surface: Debate, analyze, emote, negotiate, tractor beam...
@schmidt_fu Definitely cleaner, more cerebral, but the underlying message (when they talk about it) is that the Federation is internally peaceful and crime-free (in fact, one TOS episode is about the final "penal colony" where crime is "cured").
@mlv Yeah, that would be a useful general direction for the "Thorgon" mankind: It's not living in heaven (like Star Trek), but neither in near-future man-made hell (like Neuromancer). @bazbt3
@schmidt_fu That sounds good. A big thing with ST (the Roddenberry/utopia, if you will) is that there is no crime, poverty, or war on earth. I could almost believe no poverty, and maybe no war, but no crime? That's part of our (fallen) human nature @bazbt3
@schmidt_fu@bazbt3 Favorite quote from Star Trek DS9: Sisko: Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth-on Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. 1/2
@schmidt_fu@bazbt3 It's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the demilitarized zone all the problems haven't been solved yet. 2/3
@schmidt_fu@bazbt3 Out there, there are no saints, just people-angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not. 3/3
@schmidt_fu@mlv Have you 'experienced' Battlefield Earth (book, film: L. Ron Hubbard)? The film's bad reputation is deserved, should *not* be seen before reading the book, maybe twice. ;)
@mlv I only got a few volumes into the Mission Earth series; it was poorly-written and became increasingly difficult to find here in the UK after, I think, vol.3. And then the man died. // @schmidt_fu
@bazbt3 I'm sad for the thousands of real people enslaved with the help of this man's writing (google: Xenu and Clambake). No need to bother who is enslaved by whom within the books.
I've my had my share of poorly written Sci-Fi stories, anyway :-)
@bazbt3 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to diminish your reading experience. After all, we were talking about other worlds; not ours. The idea of mankind in the reversed role as endangered species certainly has merit, be it by aliens or by ourselves.